Comments on: The Princess and the Frog (2009) http://filmikaze.com/index.php/2010/01/the-princess-and-the-frog-2009/ Loving movies with reckless abandon. Sun, 19 Sep 2010 21:43:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: Anita http://filmikaze.com/index.php/2010/01/the-princess-and-the-frog-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-31 Anita Mon, 18 Jan 2010 14:09:52 +0000 http://filmikaze.com/?p=155#comment-31 Tiana isn't a princess until the very end, because she marries the prince and only then does she break the spell, blah blah. They get married as frogs. The IMDb synopsis called her a princess, but that was inaccurate, so I edited it before pasting it in here. I remember that line from Aladdin! I had the soundtrack as a teenager as well as the video, and I had completely forgotten the difference, but you're totally right. Ugh, Disney. Tiana isn’t a princess until the very end, because she marries the prince and only then does she break the spell, blah blah. They get married as frogs. The IMDb synopsis called her a princess, but that was inaccurate, so I edited it before pasting it in here.

I remember that line from Aladdin! I had the soundtrack as a teenager as well as the video, and I had completely forgotten the difference, but you’re totally right. Ugh, Disney.

]]> By: Emily http://filmikaze.com/index.php/2010/01/the-princess-and-the-frog-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-30 Emily Mon, 18 Jan 2010 13:58:47 +0000 http://filmikaze.com/?p=155#comment-30 I haven't seen this movie, so I can't voice my own opinions. I'm glad you shared this with us and thus confirmed some of what I had suspected about the movie. Also, can you explain to me briefly, was she really royalty? (That was also something that annoyed me.) Ahhh, Disney and racism. I know I'm a complete cynic, but it's 2010 (2009 when it came out). I can't be congratulatory that Disney gave us our first black heroine now. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. I grew up in a bubble. My views on race relations are a little skewed because of it. But while I'm complaining, let's not forget the line "where they cut off your ear if they don't like your face" in the opening line from Aladdin. It's in the soundtrack, but not the video. They changed it because I guess they thought they crossed a line. Or enough people complained. I haven’t seen this movie, so I can’t voice my own opinions. I’m glad you shared this with us and thus confirmed some of what I had suspected about the movie. Also, can you explain to me briefly, was she really royalty? (That was also something that annoyed me.)

Ahhh, Disney and racism. I know I’m a complete cynic, but it’s 2010 (2009 when it came out). I can’t be congratulatory that Disney gave us our first black heroine now. I don’t know. Maybe I’m wrong. I grew up in a bubble. My views on race relations are a little skewed because of it.

But while I’m complaining, let’s not forget the line “where they cut off your ear if they don’t like your face” in the opening line from Aladdin. It’s in the soundtrack, but not the video. They changed it because I guess they thought they crossed a line. Or enough people complained.

]]> By: PK http://filmikaze.com/index.php/2010/01/the-princess-and-the-frog-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-28 PK Sun, 17 Jan 2010 20:07:11 +0000 http://filmikaze.com/?p=155#comment-28 Reg and I saw the trailer for this when we went to see Precious. (I wish I was kidding. Tailoring trailers by race was more than a bit odd...there was also a Tyler Perry trailer.) Apparently our shared first impressions, e.g. <i>dear god, are they ALLOWED to do that?</i>, are a plausible reaction to the rest of the film. Of course, Disney films were already ruined for me in school, anyway. Thanks Dr. Rozario, I didn't need to realise that Belle and the Beast demonstrate an abusive relationship down to the letter. Cannot unsee. Reg and I saw the trailer for this when we went to see Precious. (I wish I was kidding. Tailoring trailers by race was more than a bit odd…there was also a Tyler Perry trailer.) Apparently our shared first impressions, e.g. dear god, are they ALLOWED to do that?, are a plausible reaction to the rest of the film.

Of course, Disney films were already ruined for me in school, anyway. Thanks Dr. Rozario, I didn’t need to realise that Belle and the Beast demonstrate an abusive relationship down to the letter. Cannot unsee.

]]> By: Megan http://filmikaze.com/index.php/2010/01/the-princess-and-the-frog-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-27 Megan Sun, 17 Jan 2010 17:57:24 +0000 http://filmikaze.com/?p=155#comment-27 People can enjoy and be happy about this movie, but it doesn't excuse the issues therein any more than the fact that everyone in the movie is happy about their situation excuses the racial attitudes of the time/ excuses that situation. The movie can be, perhaps, a great example or 2D animation, or offer fun new characters, or a fun retelling of an old fairy tale, and people can like it: this doesn't change the fact that the racial component of the film, which was SUCH A BIG DEAL, was handled poorly. Disney does not get to set out to correct its dearth of black characters, black stories, FAIL TO DO IT RESPECTFULLY, and get a free pass for it because, oh, look, they tried, and it's Disney, so who cares? We have to overthink it. We grew up on Disney, children continue to grow up on Disney, and it shapes their values and their idea of the world, which means it has a responsibility to present a morally and ethically sound story/message to viewers. And if it doesn't, parents and/or people with children in their lives need to question that message so they can talk to said children about it. People can enjoy and be happy about this movie, but it doesn’t excuse the issues therein any more than the fact that everyone in the movie is happy about their situation excuses the racial attitudes of the time/ excuses that situation.

The movie can be, perhaps, a great example or 2D animation, or offer fun new characters, or a fun retelling of an old fairy tale, and people can like it: this doesn’t change the fact that the racial component of the film, which was SUCH A BIG DEAL, was handled poorly. Disney does not get to set out to correct its dearth of black characters, black stories, FAIL TO DO IT RESPECTFULLY, and get a free pass for it because, oh, look, they tried, and it’s Disney, so who cares?

We have to overthink it. We grew up on Disney, children continue to grow up on Disney, and it shapes their values and their idea of the world, which means it has a responsibility to present a morally and ethically sound story/message to viewers. And if it doesn’t, parents and/or people with children in their lives need to question that message so they can talk to said children about it.

]]> By: Anita http://filmikaze.com/index.php/2010/01/the-princess-and-the-frog-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-26 Anita Sun, 17 Jan 2010 16:36:02 +0000 http://filmikaze.com/?p=155#comment-26 Sebastian's one of those characters that, as a white adult, I watch and kind of go "yeeeesh, am I allowed to like this guy?" But you make a really good point about the distinction between a stereotypical voice type attached to a positive character vs. a narrow collection of inherently demeaning characters. Sebastian was very successful and talented; the Cajuns depicted in PatF are very much shown as backwards, swamp-living simpletons. I feel much better about Sebastian now, so I am taking this as a big win for me. XD Sebastian’s one of those characters that, as a white adult, I watch and kind of go “yeeeesh, am I allowed to like this guy?” But you make a really good point about the distinction between a stereotypical voice type attached to a positive character vs. a narrow collection of inherently demeaning characters. Sebastian was very successful and talented; the Cajuns depicted in PatF are very much shown as backwards, swamp-living simpletons.

I feel much better about Sebastian now, so I am taking this as a big win for me. XD

]]> By: Lori http://filmikaze.com/index.php/2010/01/the-princess-and-the-frog-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-25 Lori Sun, 17 Jan 2010 15:25:59 +0000 http://filmikaze.com/?p=155#comment-25 On a total tangent - I gotta admit - I loved and still love Sebastien. As my sister says, he's one of the few non-stereotyped representation of a West Indian (specifically Trinidadian, even!) character in TV/movie media. That is, he is not a)an expert in voodoo; b)depicted as primitive savagery; c)smoking ganga/lazy/ rastafarian. The crab is a neurotic royal classic music composer who sing calypso on his off-time. I mean. Good for him for becoming a working professional and still retaining his culture (OMG I AM TALKING ABOUT A CARTOON, I KNOW, I KNOW. BUT STILL). Sometimes I feel like in terms of racial stereotyping, Disney (re)started out pretty well with Little Mermaid, and then it just slowly and steadily went downhill. :/ On a total tangent -
I gotta admit – I loved and still love Sebastien. As my sister says, he’s one of the few non-stereotyped representation of a West Indian (specifically Trinidadian, even!) character in TV/movie media. That is, he is not a)an expert in voodoo; b)depicted as primitive savagery; c)smoking ganga/lazy/ rastafarian. The crab is a neurotic royal classic music composer who sing calypso on his off-time. I mean. Good for him for becoming a working professional and still retaining his culture (OMG I AM TALKING ABOUT A CARTOON, I KNOW, I KNOW. BUT STILL).

Sometimes I feel like in terms of racial stereotyping, Disney (re)started out pretty well with Little Mermaid, and then it just slowly and steadily went downhill. :/

]]> By: Anita http://filmikaze.com/index.php/2010/01/the-princess-and-the-frog-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-24 Anita Sun, 17 Jan 2010 03:50:45 +0000 http://filmikaze.com/?p=155#comment-24 Well, I can't speak for the reaction back then because I was just a kid, and it isn't as if I knew any better at the time. But it probably does bear pointing out that those movies are twenty years old, too. I also think that there's a difference between a flamboyant French character amidst a whole cast of diverse French characters, and showing every example of a type of ethnicity as being a certain, stereotyped way. Sebastian I loved at the time, but he does make me cringe now in the same way Jar Jar Binks does. Well, I can’t speak for the reaction back then because I was just a kid, and it isn’t as if I knew any better at the time. But it probably does bear pointing out that those movies are twenty years old, too. I also think that there’s a difference between a flamboyant French character amidst a whole cast of diverse French characters, and showing every example of a type of ethnicity as being a certain, stereotyped way.

Sebastian I loved at the time, but he does make me cringe now in the same way Jar Jar Binks does.

]]> By: Angel http://filmikaze.com/index.php/2010/01/the-princess-and-the-frog-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-23 Angel Sun, 17 Jan 2010 03:39:15 +0000 http://filmikaze.com/?p=155#comment-23 I just don't get how people are making this movie out to be so DIFFERENT from what Disney's done in the past. Sebastian in "The Little Mermaid" wa a horrible stereotype and people loved him. Lumiere in "Beauty and the Beast" was a French stereotype and there was no uproar. I think people are perpetuating a ridiculous double standard as far as this movie is concerned. So when I say "back then", I'm not talking about the Heckle and Jeckle era cartoons, I'm talking about what people are referring to as the "Disney Renaissance." I just don’t get how people are making this movie out to be so DIFFERENT from what Disney’s done in the past. Sebastian in “The Little Mermaid” wa a horrible stereotype and people loved him. Lumiere in “Beauty and the Beast” was a French stereotype and there was no uproar. I think people are perpetuating a ridiculous double standard as far as this movie is concerned. So when I say “back then”, I’m not talking about the Heckle and Jeckle era cartoons, I’m talking about what people are referring to as the “Disney Renaissance.”

]]> By: Anita http://filmikaze.com/index.php/2010/01/the-princess-and-the-frog-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-22 Anita Sun, 17 Jan 2010 03:10:00 +0000 http://filmikaze.com/?p=155#comment-22 <em>The Princess and the Frog is no different from the movies they’ve made in the past when it comes to racial sensitivity and stereotyping, and no one hated their films back then for it.</em> You don't think that we as a culture, and Disney by extension, should be evolving beyond that? What I'm taking from this comment is that Disney might as well have continued on making movies with all white people, because that worked for them at the time. I think it's about being aware as a culture and trying to grow beyond the stereotyping and misogyny, and as I inferred in my second paragraph, I patently do not believe "it's Disney" is ever an excuse for perpetrating ignorance. It's one thing to look at older films and accept them as a product of their time, but there's no excuse for it in modern filmmaking, not in this sort of context. The Princess and the Frog is no different from the movies they’ve made in the past when it comes to racial sensitivity and stereotyping, and no one hated their films back then for it.

You don’t think that we as a culture, and Disney by extension, should be evolving beyond that? What I’m taking from this comment is that Disney might as well have continued on making movies with all white people, because that worked for them at the time. I think it’s about being aware as a culture and trying to grow beyond the stereotyping and misogyny, and as I inferred in my second paragraph, I patently do not believe “it’s Disney” is ever an excuse for perpetrating ignorance. It’s one thing to look at older films and accept them as a product of their time, but there’s no excuse for it in modern filmmaking, not in this sort of context.

]]> By: Angel http://filmikaze.com/index.php/2010/01/the-princess-and-the-frog-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-21 Angel Sun, 17 Jan 2010 02:52:08 +0000 http://filmikaze.com/?p=155#comment-21 Wow. I completely and totally disagree. I thought this movie was fantastic and was the perfect film to pave the way for Disney to get back into 2D animation. I'm trying to figure out how to best phrase WHY I disagree with pretty much all that you've said here, but for now, here were my initial thoughts on the film: http://popculturereference.net/2009/12/12/recapturing-the-magic-disneys-the-princess-and-the-frog I honestly think that everyone's trying to overthink this movie. It's Disney, for god sakes. The Princess and the Frog is no different from the movies they've made in the past when it comes to racial sensitivity and stereotyping, and no one hated their films back then for it. I don't get why there's so much rage over it now. Wow. I completely and totally disagree. I thought this movie was fantastic and was the perfect film to pave the way for Disney to get back into 2D animation. I’m trying to figure out how to best phrase WHY I disagree with pretty much all that you’ve said here, but for now, here were my initial thoughts on the film:

http://popculturereference.net/2009/12/12/recapturing-the-magic-disneys-the-princess-and-the-frog

I honestly think that everyone’s trying to overthink this movie. It’s Disney, for god sakes. The Princess and the Frog is no different from the movies they’ve made in the past when it comes to racial sensitivity and stereotyping, and no one hated their films back then for it. I don’t get why there’s so much rage over it now.

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